Basic DeltaV replaces and improves upon the stock dV system. All stock deltaV calculations are replaced using a modified version of the Kerbal Engineer Redux vessel simulator. The allows for several improvements and additions to the stock system: Mach slider used to allow for accurate calculation of jet engine data at flight speeds. Welcome to the Galilean Planets basic wiki! Galileo's Planet Pack (version 1.6.0.1 released) is a star system mod for Kerbal Space Program. Unlike other planet packs which promise new planets to explore in addition to the stock ones, a fraction of which even rearrange the stock planets, this one entirely removes them and replaces the homeworld Kerbin with Gael.
Jool intercept 2 years 263 days, Eeloo intercept 396 days? Something doesn't seem right there.As said in the subtitles, 'Flight time is based on 10 years of average flight possibilities simulated on Alexmoon's Launch Window Planner, from day 1.' I've decided to do it because someone said they weren't satisfied with the flight time specified in the previous chart. I decided to run a simulation and get the average results from it, as shown in the picture above, but I haven't tested it at all.Anyway, that was my approach of showing the flight time projections. If you have a better suggestion, I'd love to read.(maybe I should take the shortest time shown by default on Alexmoon's planner? Kerbin Jool gives me a minimum flight time of 561 days.
Should I use that, instead?). Yesterday, I was having about some delta-V charts not being precise enough, and a has been pointed out.But because the chart posted above isn't very easy-reading, I took the liberty to edit WAC's Subway-style Delta-V Map, updating the dV numbers and adding some extra info, based on the data provided by the chart above.Thanks for making an update to the chart.I believe, it should replace the one on.And since the is a bit difficult to get used to, it's author metaphor made available some time ago. Edited October 16, 2014 by mhoram. Thanks for this! I'm confused about the Elliptical Orbit bit that you've added to the chart though.Do the values shown between 'Elliptical Orbit' and 'X Planet Intercept' have to be added up again to the Delta V total when returning from X Planet's surface to Kerbin?So for example, if leaving from the surface of Duna to arrive back in the Kerbin SOI, would the total delta V be 1300+360+250+130=2040?And if you're leaving the orbit of a planet to arrive in the orbit of one of it's moons, do you ignore the Delta V shown between 'X Planet Low Orbit' and 'Elliptical Orbit?' And just use the Delta V shown between 'Elliptical Orbit' and 'X Moon Intercept'?So for example, if leaving from Low Jool Orbit to arrive in Low Laythe Orbit, is the total Delta V 2810+930+1070=4810? Or is it simply 930+1070=2000?Basically, my question is do you always add every single number along the way from Point A to Point B no matter what, or are there situations where numbers along the way are skipped depending on what direction you're moving?
As said in the subtitles, 'Flight time is based on 10 years of average flight possibilities simulated on Alexmoon's Launch Window Planner, from day 1.' I've decided to do it because someone said they weren't satisfied with the flight time specified in the previous chart. I decided to run a simulation and get the average results from it, as shown in the picture above, but I haven't tested it at all.Anyway, that was my approach of showing the flight time projections. If you have a better suggestion, I'd love to read.(maybe I should take the shortest time shown by default on Alexmoon's planner?
Kerbin Jool gives me a minimum flight time of 561 days. Should I use that, instead?)Maybe I should have been clearer - the Jool flight time seems roughly right.
Eeloo is way out though. It's not 396 days to get there (.
Please quote your definitive source for the pronunciation (or even spelling!) of this.In English (we could get into language, dialect or even accent difficulties here.) I've always assumed it wasn't 'Mun'-rhymes-with-'Bun' because of the umlaut.Source: Any and all mentions of the Mun by Squad on official portals, ever. Example:In contrast to that, I assure you you will not find the umlaut used anywhere but in the scrawling on the flank of the rocket on the title screenThere are also video interviews, Squadcasts, recordings of presentations and other audio sources that allow you to hear exactly how members of the dev team pronounce 'Mun'. They pretty much say 'moon', except with maybe the vowel a little shorter, and I'm fairly sure this is intended.
I think the only reason it's even written 'Mun' and not 'Moon' is because they needed a way to make it different because the Kerbal universe is different. Yet at the same time they wanted to preserve phrase 'going to the Moon' in some manner, since it's like THE dream of spaceflight made manifest.
'Going to Minmus' just doesn't have the same ring to it, doesn't inspire quite the same sense of innate awe and anticipation. You can't have a rocketry and space travel simulator without 'going to the Moon'. That's like asking McDonalds to print a menu without mentioning the Big Mac! Thanks for this! I'm confused about the Elliptical Orbit bit that you've added to the chart though.Do the values shown between 'Elliptical Orbit' and 'X Planet Intercept' have to be added up again to the Delta V total when returning from X Planet's surface to Kerbin?So for example, if leaving from the surface of Duna to arrive back in the Kerbin SOI, would the total delta V be 1300+360+250+130=2040?And if you're leaving the orbit of a planet to arrive in the orbit of one of it's moons, do you ignore the Delta V shown between 'X Planet Low Orbit' and 'Elliptical Orbit?'
And just use the Delta V shown between 'Elliptical Orbit' and 'X Moon Intercept'?So for example, if leaving from Low Jool Orbit to arrive in Low Laythe Orbit, is the total Delta V 2810+930+1070=4810? Or is it simply 930+1070=2000?Basically, my question is do you always add every single number along the way from Point A to Point B no matter what, or are there situations where numbers along the way are skipped depending on what direction you're moving?Bump?I'm getting ready to start a bunch of interplanetary missions so answers to these questions would be really helpful.
So for example, if leaving from Low Jool Orbit to arrive in Low Laythe Orbit, is the total Delta V 2810+930+1070=4810? Or is it simply 930+1070=2000?As far as I understand the chart, this should be ((2810 - 930) + 1070) m/s(2810 - 930) m/s is the Delta-V needed to get from Low Jool Orbit to an intercept with Laythe (This transfer orbit has a Periapsis of 150km and Apoapsis of 27184km)1070 m/s is needed to circularize in Low Laythe Orbit.All of this is based on the numbers in the OP-chart and assuming that no gravity assists or aerobraking is used. Thanks for this! I'm confused about the Elliptical Orbit bit that you've added to the chart though.Do the values shown between 'Elliptical Orbit' and 'X Planet Intercept' have to be added up again to the Delta V total when returning from X Planet's surface to Kerbin?So for example, if leaving from the surface of Duna to arrive back in the Kerbin SOI, would the total delta V be 1300+360+250+130=2040?And if you're leaving the orbit of a planet to arrive in the orbit of one of it's moons, do you ignore the Delta V shown between 'X Planet Low Orbit' and 'Elliptical Orbit?' And just use the Delta V shown between 'Elliptical Orbit' and 'X Moon Intercept'?So for example, if leaving from Low Jool Orbit to arrive in Low Laythe Orbit, is the total Delta V 2810+930+1070=4810? Or is it simply 930+1070=2000?Basically, my question is do you always add every single number along the way from Point A to Point B no matter what, or are there situations where numbers along the way are skipped depending on what direction you're moving?You're right. The proccess is to add numbers between every checkpoint.
On your math, you forgot to add the Maximum possible dV required to change angle inclinations, which is marked by that black number above the Metro stripes. In Duna's case, that's only 10m/s (above '130'). So, to go from Kerbin's Low Orbit until Duna's Surface (without using aerobrake), you should add: 950+130+10+250+360+1300=3000. Naturally, you can use aerobraking to reduce some of those values to 0, but I wanted to make sure everyone understands the math. The same proccess occurs on the opposite way, but as mhoram stated above, the values vary a bit on the return to Kerbin.
Usually, you need less than what's specified on that chart.I put that 'Elliptical Orbit' there to make things more detailed/easy when approaching a planet's SOI, or flying from a planet to it's moons. The Elliptical orbit is simply an orbit with the Periapsis = Low Orbit Altitude and the Apoapsis = Planet SOI edge. So, you don't need to spend way more dV to circularize before moving to a planet's moon.
Maybe I should have been clearer - the Jool flight time seems roughly right. Eeloo is way out though.
It's not 396 days to get there (. I added the updated map to. I hope nobody minds.Actually, I found this thread after seeing the new map on the wiki.Three suggestions:- If you have Steam, please take a look at your image in the Cheat Sheet page, as viewed in the Steam Overlay browser.
For me, it's ginormous, though I am running at a mere 1600x1200.- Perhaps a visual legend would be clearer than just the text description? It took me a while to figure out what the new numbers were. (Actually, this is something the map could have used from the beginning.)- Regarding the discussion of what transfer durations to show, I like your ten-year-averaging method, but I think it would be useful to show the minimum and maximum for each as well - though I am not sure if, visually, it would fit well.Thanks! Regarding the discussion of what transfer durations to show, I like your ten-year-averaging method, but I think it would be useful to show the minimum and maximum for each as well - though I am not sure if, visually, it would fit well.with those max and min delta-v figures as well. The thing to realize, however, is that in most cases your best bet is to consult Ksp.olex or, even better, and don't even both with an interplanetary transfer except for one of the ideal launch windows.At this point I've pretty much abandoned the subway-style map available on the Wiki in favor of Metaphor's map. It's a lot more accurate, if a little less aesthetically pleasing.
Actually, I found this thread after seeing the new map on the wiki.Three suggestions:- If you have Steam, please take a look at your image in the Cheat Sheet page, as viewed in the Steam Overlay browser. For me, it's ginormous, though I am running at a mere 1600x1200.- Perhaps a visual legend would be clearer than just the text description? It took me a while to figure out what the new numbers were. (Actually, this is something the map could have used from the beginning.)- Regarding the discussion of what transfer durations to show, I like your ten-year-averaging method, but I think it would be useful to show the minimum and maximum for each as well - though I am not sure if, visually, it would fit well.Thanks!- The image size is intentional. It's easier reducing it for each personal needs than making it bigger and losing quality.- How would you imagine the visual legend? Any suggestions?- If I am to put a minimum and maximum time of flight on the chart, I would have to add minimum and maximum Delta-V requirements there as well.
But I am keeping the purpose of that chart the same as I think WAC's was: To be a chart. It's a quick handbook.
It's not meant to be a complete-and-super-detailed guide on interplanetary travels. Instead, it's made for quick consultation, so one can have a general idea of how much delta-V to pack in his vessel. For those advanced purposes, as NASAHireMe said, you can check the awesome tools and maps by Metaphor, Alex, Olex, and many others out there.Thinking of all those extra possibilities to come, like the one you just brought to us, I've anticipated myself and released the master file on the OP. Anyone can download that and the free-trial version of the software I used to (re-)make it, and edit as you wish. Edited December 23, 2014 by Kowgan. I have an odd question that is kind of confusing me, and maybe someone clarify for me somewhat. Is the total what I need at time of launch or does this take into account the change in a ship as it goes from atmosphere to space?
To go from Kerbin to Moho by this it says I will need 11190 dv total, but according to KER my full dv value is 10606 dv. However this does seem to change as I shed the launch stage to the transfer stage giving me an increase, or rather it changes the values as I stage parts. I hope someone can clarify it some, the chart makes sense to some degree but maybe I am missing something.
I have an odd question that is kind of confusing me, and maybe someone clarify for me somewhat. Is the total what I need at time of launch or does this take into account the change in a ship as it goes from atmosphere to space? To go from Kerbin to Moho by this it says I will need 11190 dv total, but according to KER my full dv value is 10606 dv. However this does seem to change as I shed the launch stage to the transfer stage giving me an increase, or rather it changes the values as I stage parts. I hope someone can clarify it some, the chart makes sense to some degree but maybe I am missing something. ThanksI spent the last hour looking for this Kerbal Engineer Redux feature that shows you the estimated dV for interplanetary burns, with no luck. So, I'm really confused about where did you get that 10606 value.Either way, to answer your questions, by parts:- does this take into account the change in a ship as it goes from atmosphere to space?Yes, for every atmospheric body.
Good thing that it's splitted into several parts, so you know which ones are referring to a in-atmosphere burn, and which aren't.The 4550m/s estimated by the chart in order to get into a low Kerbin orbit accounts the two burns: The atmospheric one (Launch pad until your Apoapsis reach 80km) and the circularization burn, which happens outside of atmosphere. After some tests here, I found that, in order to get into a 150km circular orbit, I spend about 3800m/s on the first burn, plus 1200m/s on the circularization. Total is 5000m/s. So you can have an idea what's needed for the 80km orbit.- To go from Kerbin to Moho by this it says I will need 11190 dv total, but according to KER my full dv value is 10606 dv.That's not a question.- To go from Kerbin to Moho by this it says I will need 11190 dv total, but according to KER my full dv value is 10606 dv?Maybe. As said previously, I couldn't find that feature on KER, but here's what I think it is the cause of these differences:'11190m/s' is the dV required from Launch until Low Moho Orbit. It includes the little '2520' number over the Moho Intercept number.BUT!That number represents the maximum possibly necessary dV in order to do a plane change (that 'Ascending' and 'Descending' nodes stuff; the angle difference between planets).That means this number may vary considerably, depending on Kerbin's and Moho's position relative to Kerbol. Depending on the transfer window date, you may need less dV than what's specified there.TL;DR:Yes, the chart takes into account the atmospheric burns.The Plane Change dV (number outisde of the Metro Stripes) is the cause for the dV variation between the chart and KER.I'm sorry for the wall of text.
I have this bad habit on me, and it's very hard to get rid of it. I've gotta filter my text several times before posting.I hope that answers your questions. I spent the last hour looking for this Kerbal Engineer Redux feature that shows you the estimated dV for interplanetary burns, with no luck. So, I'm really confused about where did you get that 10606 value.No, Liowen isn't saying that KER gave him/her a 10606 value for a full journey to Moho, but rather that when building in the VAB, the 'Total DV' of his ship was 10606.He understands that 11190 is an approximate target for that trip. What he's asking about is, occasionally, KER (and MechJeb too, I've witnessed the same phenomenon with MechJeb and that's why I recognized his question) will change DV values in-flight.I wish I was on my home computer, b/c then I could provide screenshots to prove it. Best way I can describe it is, you have a typical three-stage asparagus rocket, with all fuel lines and decouplers properly organized. Let's say the Total DV calculated by KER or MJ is 10000 dV, split among the stages 2000+2000+6000.
Upon launch, with MJ's delta-v window open so I can see the readouts, the first stage burns through its 2000 dV over a period of X seconds. But while this is happening, the second stage will 'magically' begin to GAIN both vacuum and atmo delta-v. Usually the gains are very small- somewhere around 5%, or a few dozen dV by first stage burnout and second stage ignition.
The third stage will also show gains, but to a lesser extent. Together, these 'additional' gains may be enough to push the total dV to the 11190 for Moho.Theoretically, this shouldn't happen.
Any mass above the first stage ought to be considered as static payload weight, as per the Rocket Equation. I have a few guesses as to why the delta-v creeps upwards during flight, all related to HOW MJ and KER calculate dV.
Obviously, the physics are right, it's the estimations that are 'wrong'.1. Engines have different ISPs depending on atmospheric pressure, and the change in ISPs is a smooth curve, not an instantaneous jump. KER and MJ only utilize vac and atmo ISPs in their calculations, ignoring the first 300 seconds after launch when those ISPs are changing (in the case of the nuclear, quite drastically).2. MJ and KER don't know your exact launch profile. They have to make estimates based on a standard gravity-turn flightpath.
But if your flightpath deviates significantly from that assumed path, then its calculations are messed up, because of reason #1 above.I have a few more guesses but I'm at work and shouldn't be on here anyways, so it'll have to wait. BTW, this is a good enough question for a separate forum post. Edited December 24, 2014 by NASAHireMe.
Flairs:Rules:.Please remain kind and civil at all times.No posts unrelated to KSP or memes and image macros. See on misc posts for more info.Refrain from submitting images that involve real life space disasters that resulted in loss of life.Don't post/discuss mirrors or torrents of any version of KSP.Low-effort content will be removed. See for more info.Leave moderation to the moderators.Tag spoilers/Easter eggs as spoilersImportant Links- For all your modsOther useful links- Share your craft files!#KSPOfficial @ irc.esper.netksp.nabaal.netWeekly Challenge:Held at random, unpredictable intervals!Last contest's winner: forteefly1998!with proof, and we'll give you some flair to show it! This picture only gives some of the story though. It tells you roughly how much dV you will need, but it doesn't tell you how to make the ship to survive the trip or how to fly it there or make the intercept.Keep in mind that aerobraking is not always possible, or you can only perform a partial aerobrake.
For example the atmosphere on Duna is basically too thin to aerobrake to land even if you have many parachutes, so you have to use a bit of dV from your engines to land. The atmosphere on Eve is too thick to safely aerocapture for most ships so you have to use your engines a bit. Etc.Similarly you can't aerocapture using Jool's atmosphere, but you can usually do a reverse slingshot using tylo to get into orbit so it amounts to the same thing. Knowing that kind of thing comes with experience. That's where I get confused. I understand the arrows mean aerobraking is possible, but to what extent?Depends on your craft, its trajectory, and the atmosphere of the object you're braking around.
A 65k periapsis around Kerbin is barely going to affect your craft's velocity; you'll fly right. A 10k periapsis will capture anything- though it'll explode from the heat.As far as I'm aware all of the stock atmospheres are dense enough to capture anything on an interplanetary transfer trajectory. You have to find the right altitude for your particular trajectory and the heatshield(s) on your craft. I recommend quick-saving as soon as you enter the SoI of the planet so you can try various altitudes until you get it just right. Like some other folks have mentioned, the last 930 is also mostly possible to do with airbraking. If you leave Minmus's sphere of influence by ejecting yourself retrograde to Minmus's orbit, it'll leave you in a highly elliptical Kerbin orbit.If you burn that way a bit farther and bring your periapsis into the atmosphere (20k-30k), you can let your heat-shield / aerobraking do the work, so you don't really need to spend delta-V going from from 'elliptical Kerbin orbit' to 'low Kerbin orbit' on the map.